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. >> that's just silly. >> grover norquist, he wanted ground government in the bathtub. i hope he slips in there with it. >> medicaid, social security. >> this is not part of the conversation. we're not going to raid social security. just another fight in washington. >> there's going to be blood and hair and eyeballs all over the floor. >> i'm more positive than most. >> if not, we go off the supposed cliff. >> the fiscal cliff or slope. the bump of various height. >>> thelma and louise might need to make room in the car for the president of the united states. at the white house today, senior obama administration officials met with liberal leaders and union officials. "the washington post" reports that one told him after the meeting, quote, would the white house go off the cliff if it's between that and compromising their core principles? i was left with the impression that they would. illinois democratic senator dick durbin spoke today at the liberal center for american progress where he said this about the possibility of going off the cliff which fears of this show know is is really m
-tax crusader, grover norquist attacking the wives of republican congressman? >> i hope his wife understands that commitments last a little longer than two years. >> tonight, lee saunders on the grassroots blast to pass the middle class tax cuts. >> small business owner, lou krantz, on his meeting with the president. congressman, steve israel, on the democratic momentum on the fiscal cliff. plus. >> karen finney on the new bizarre attack on ambassador, susan rice. >> all of the sudden, we are the bell of the ball. we are here to say, it's time to start to dance. >>> latino voters help put president obama over the top. now, the hispanic caucus says they want action. representative luis gutierrez joins me tonight. >>> good to have you with us. thanks for watching. president obama is selling his economic agenda and using all the right tools. the president was surrounded today by middle class taxpayers at the white house as he pushed for an extension of the tax cuts for income below $250,000. he was quick to highlight the break in the ranks with the republicans. >> i am glad to see, if you've be
. >> some of these people have had impure thoughts? >> do you have any impure thoughts about grover norquist? >> it is not about that pledge. >> i'm not obligated on the pledge. i will violate the pledge. >> deja vu all over again. >> he will be irrelevant. >> with the end of the world, de deadly dragon, that would be interesting, except it's not true. >> he will be irrelevant and he knows it. >> what started as a bad week for the most famous grover since president cleveland has now gotten worse. the former chair of the house republicans campaign committee. who could always be relied upon to march in lock step with republican leadership has said he now agrees with president obama on taxes. >> we agree with the president on that. >> congressman cole said he thinks the house of representatives should simply pass the bill that has passed the senate, preserving the current tax rates for all except those in the top brackets, which would revert to the clinton tax rates. the current rates are expected to expire on new year's eve, all of them, and congressman cole has decided it's time to face reali
in the standoff in washington and the threat of recession. grover norquist is here again. i promise you, it will be more lively than last time. >>> and the next chapter in the fairy tale. >> obviously we want a family so we have to start thinking about that. >> that was then, this is now. the royal couple, their baby news and her battle with a rare illness. plus, why it matters to the royal family. this is "piers morgan tonight." >>> good evening. you've heard me talk on this show time and again about gun violence in america, gabby giffords, trayvon martin, aurora, colorado, now the shocking incident on saturday. kansas city chiefs linebacker javon belcher shot and killed the mother of his baby daughter, then drove to the team's practice facility and shot himself in front of his head coach and the team's general manager. on sunday, that shooting prompted this extraordinary moment from bob costas during halftime of nbc sunday night football game when he quoted sportswriter jason whitlock. >> in the coming days, javon belcher's actions and their possible connection to football will be ana
country first. remember that, mccain? >> bill: now it is grover norquist. >> it is more than a slogan. grover norquist seems to take precedent. patty says also in the chat room, the republicans remind me of a boyfriend that you leave because he was a jerk and then he does every jerk thing possible because you denied him. >> bill: that sounds like lindsey graham to me. by the way i thought jay carney had a great point on this why isn't the president meeting with these republicans? why is he wasting time talking to real people? jay carney said let him say it. >> only inside the beltway do people think that -- sitting in a room for photo spray will solve necessarily problems. the work has to be done and that work is being done. >> bill: yeah, right. sitting around with the photo spray, the journalists -- the reporter's short hand for letting the cameras come in and get a picture of everyone and think that accomplishes something, it doesn't. it is a waste of time. any time spent with john boehner and eric cantor and
sides can end the fighting and make a deal. anti-tax champion grover norquist last night told me he's keeping republicans to the no tax increase pledge they made decades ago. but should his party back away from that promise? joining me in his first interview since the election, reince priebus, chairman of the republican national committee. welcome back, mr. priebus. how are you? >> doing great, piers. how are you? >> you have been keeping your head below the paraput since the shellacking you guys took in the election. what is your reaction to the pretty poor defeat? >> well, i think that we got to look at everything that we're doing. i think that's what we have to do. i don't think you can draw any quick conclusions other than the fact that we lost and we know that. but i think in order to get back in the game, you've got to look at and do a full autopsy of what happened, what we did well, what we didn't do well, what we can do better in the next year with two governors' races coming up and two years later, then four years from now. so what we're going to do is we want to bring ever
an openness to increased revenues which means the choke hold grover norquist and his tax pledge held on republicans may be loosening. frank bruni thinks republicans devolved into dummies and nor west was their ventriloquist. not everyone saw norquist as the cause of the problem. defending him truth is that mr. norquist doesn't have such power. the voters do. he had the wit to channel the electorate's limited government beliefs into a single issue enforcement mechanism. long-time ally of norquist, jack abramoff who joins me in a moment said simply, news of grover's demise is premature. but in recent interviews, norquist has begun to sound like a petulant leader on the way out. >> the pledge is not for l.i.e. everybody who signed the pledge including peter king, who tried to weasel out of it, shame on him as the new york sun said today, i hope his wife understands that commitments last a little longer than two years or something. >> eliot: warren buffett continued to be the pragmatic voice of the majority. >> i think th
caucus, and that's grover norquist, who is not a member of this house, to say that the pledge that people should honor is the pledge to the u.s. constitution and not the pledge to grover norquist. >> speaker boehner was on fox news on sunday, and he says as he described negotiations, we're nowhere, period. we are nowhere. 29 days to go. we have some analysts such as our first read team that say the real negotiations won't begin until mid-november. already you have wall street and everyday people bracing for another 11th hour situations. how would you categorize where things stand right now 29 days out? >> well, i think 29 days in politics, as you know, is a very long time. i actually feel confident that we will reach a proposal. i say that because i know speaker boehner and his caucus does not want taxes raced on every single person in the united states. there is a proposal sitting in our house right now passed out of the senate that would maintain the cuts for 98% of the u.s. population. >> we will talk about that a little later in a move that was mentioned by nancy pelosi. you express c
want to be sure somebody loses. and i say to people whether it's grover norquist or whatever, lord's sake, if you can't step up to the plate, what can happen to you? they can't murder you, they can't burn your house. the only thing they can do is defeat for you re-election by throwing some coo-coo from the left or right on you and if that means more than your country when it's extremity patriots instead of panderer, you shouldn't even be in the damn congress. >> tonight chris matthews delivers your daily dose of political analysis from the nation's capital. don't miss hardball with chris matthews weekdays at 5:00 and 7:00 eastern only on msnbc, the place for politics. >>> elsewhere on the hill, u.n. ambassador susan rice spent her day behind closed doors explaining statements she made back this september about the deadly attack on the u.s. consulate in libya. however as brian mooar reports, her defense failed to convince her republican critics. >> reporter: embattled u.n. ambassador susan rice went to capitol hill to explain what they knew and now knows about the deadly attack on t
have flat out repudiated their anti-tax increase pledge. the author of that pledge, grover norquist, here and we will ask him how it is that he came to be the villain in this piece, how it feels to be the subject of attacks from both the left and some on the right and what the future holds for those republicans who break their pledges to voters. also tonight, demonstrations for a sixth straight day in egypt. the united nations on statehood for palestinians tomorrow and the presidens spokesman says the white house is not concerned with ambassador rice misleading the public o benghazi. pillows a prize-winning journalist, a former pentagon official said among our guests. we begin tonight with that triple digit rally on wall street. the market interpreted positive statements on a potential deal on the fiscal cliff by house speaker and rebounded from what had been a 112-point slide after the morning's opening bell. the dow jones industrials reversed, as i said, on the speaker's positive remarks and finished the session up 107 points. s&p up 11, nasdaq gained 24. all ten s&p 500 sectors m
's interesting is with grover norquist and the anti-tax pledge, over 90% of republicans have signed that pledge, but so many are now speaking out about it. this morning in a breakfast with politico, mike allen was talking to grover norquist about this and grover norquist responded saying certain republicans are having impure thoughts about the fact that they would go ahead and break that pledge. take a listen to part of that breakfast meeting. >> i sounds like republicans are less afraid of you now. are you like frosty? are you melting, losing your power before our very eyes? >> no. two things are both fictions. one is the scenario that republicans were afraid of americans for tax reform and me personally and they took the pledge because i told them to. that's colbert territory, that's harry reid, that's what they say. that's nonsense. people take the pledge. the reason why most republicans and a handful of democrats take the pledge is that they don't intend to raise taxes. >> wouldn't it be good if our leaders were not signing pledges like this and actually voted with what their stilts wanted?
the hell grover norquist is. >> and why did his dad name him grover. >> it's a boy named sue kind of thing. >> stephanie: you know my fact checking skills. >> i read this, too in. >> cenk: it's questionable at this point. >> you're looking at me to fact check your fact check. i screwed up as much as anybody here. >> stephanie: the point is, i don't know if the story is true, but when he was a kid his dad also a douche. >> yes. >> stephanie: bought him an ice-cream cone and then took several large bites out of it and then said, this is what the government does. maybe that's why the douche didn't fall far from the bag as john fugalsang would say. [ baby crying ] >> stephanie: so he was anti-big government. >> i'll get back at him. i'll show him. i'm going to out douche daddy. nikki in chicago. welcome. >> caller: hey mama, how are you. >> stephanie: good, go ahead. >> caller: i just want to rebut what sue from rockville said about christian charities. they are not all anti-gay. there are some good ones out there. >> stephanie: nikki, i had one question, and funny i wish i had asked the guy a
grover norquist. that alone is a leading indicator that the fiscal deal is within reach. both sides are still far apart. the discussions over the next few weeks will be difficult. but with each new republican disavowingi grover norquist, th chance of a deal rises sharply. >> apparently wall street is not as optimistic. stocks dipped immediately. the dow dipped 9 poi89 points. >>> house republicans have announced their recommendations on who will claire the committees. and they love white old men. there is not a single woman among the 19 members that speaker skrjohn boehner recommed yesterday. not one woman. although chairs for the ethics and house administration committees have yet to be decided. that would make sense. on the other side of the aisle, house democrats have not ounced their recommendations. politico says maxine waters has been recommended for the financial services committee who was recently cleared of ethics charges. >> bob dole recovering this morning after routine surgery. a spokesperson says the former republican presidential candidate is doing well and plans to le
a message for fellow panelists and father of the anti-tax pledge, grover norquist. >> most ceos are republican. they're on board. they're not on board with you. they're not on board with you because they fear your view. they think you do not favor going -- you favor going over the cliff. that's what they think. they think that you favor -- >> just for the record since we're on tv. that's silly if they think that they shouldn't be ceos. >> it doesn't really matter. that's what they think. >> i want you to walk me up to that moment. >> behind the record. i like that too. >> i'm stuck. like grover is stuck with this pledge he made everybody take which is that they have to go over the cliff because they obviously will not ever say the word tax. they will only say revenue. i'm stuck speaking to many more ceos than grover norquist is. he thinks it's silly. he thinks ceos are silly. i don't think they're silly. they control hiring in this country. many americans play for dinner. i don't think grover norquist cares about who is paying to dinner. he has a pledge. it's important to him an
: so it seems grover norquist, his days may be numbered. more and more republicans are running away from him. i don't think his worry may be so much of the members of congress as their spouses. peter king yesterday talked about grover norquist. said watch out grover. >> this whole thing with norquist came up out of nowhere. again, going back -- the fact that he brought my wife into it, he's never meet me or my wife. he better hope he doesn't because i'll knock his head off. >> going to knock his head off. his wife would knock his head off. >> that's a bad moment. peter king's spouse is going to come for grover norquist. >> bill: if king was responding to the fact that grover norquist said his pledge is like the marriage pledge, right. the same power. the same -- and if you take your marriage vows, it is once and forever. and if you sign his pledge, it is once and forever. i don't think most members when they sign that had quite the same -- >> most members thought of as peter king. some of the folks on capitol
attacks it or the recession it might trigger but grover norquist, a frequent guest year. the nti-tax pledge many republicans signed. with more on this republican senator mike lee of uth. always good to see you. thank you for coming on. a growing number of republican senators who are dissing themselves from grover. take aook at this. the list goes on and on. will you back away from grov and his pledge? >> the plege i made regarding taxes to that have to do with any one individual. what i'd made for my constituents, the voters of utah who elected me in part because i was willing to acknowledge of washington has a spending problem, far more than a revenue problem. voters in utah recognize the fact that when you raise taxes which economic growth. that is what we need t least right now. we need new growth, new jobs, and that is why i'm shying away from a tax increase. gerri: it's interesting because democrats keep pushing grover into the spotlight making him a bogyman. >> an obstacle standing beyond, plan -- congress and compromise. for years norquist has believe lawmakers willing to
with grover norquist. no longer would they be voting to increase taxes. we would be giving them limited opportunities to vote to cut taxes for middle income, working families and others who need it and deserve it. unfortunately, they wouldn't get the vote on restoring the bush-era rates for millionaires and billionaires for a total of dividends down to 15% or even back to the capital gains rates of clinton era or maybe back to the reagan era. we could talk about significant revenues that would not impact or hurt 98% of the people in this country. >> eliot: i think your logic is impeccable. i'm one of those saying for a long time let them expire. our hand only gets stronger as we go forwards january 1 and after. after january 15th, you can retroactively fix anything done between the expiration and the date that you pass a new bill. it's not as though these changes are permanent, and beyond correction by congress. >> in fact, the irs said they couldn't get new withholding tables for the new tax rate before march. we have month or two months in there to put in place targeted relief. we als
about grover norquist? >> it's not about government per se. pandora lobbied government to have to bill. pandora wants to lower the royalties they have to pay to the artist. the artist have a dispute with pandora. >> sean: wait a minute. that's government intervention that government it up -- >> it's asking government to intervene. ays forget the other side, how the private sector goes out to the government all the time? >> they're uncomfortable with government coming in and leveling the playing field. or are they comfortable with pandora -- >> sean: go ahead. >> were they comfortable with the idea of government leveling the playing field before? >> is that a concept that -- >> you're confusing the issue. >> they're okay with pai paying their fair share. not all of them. some of the artists involved are actually republicans. but they've all said they're okay with paying higher taxes to help this country out. what they're not okay with is pandora lobbying -- >> sean: this isn't about pandora. there's a big point you're missing here. they're teaming up with grover norquist, antitax groups
. >>> grover norquist may have lost people on taxes but his thinking invaded immigration reform. seriously, immigration reform. that's next. and how congress can save $18 billion and more? without raising any taxes or cutting any spending. they just need to stop doing one thing. one teensy little incredible stupid thing. that is coming up. >>> yesterday, a stunning report was released by the pew research center showing that the birthrate dropped to its lowest ever recorded last year to 63.2 births to 1,000 women in child bearing age. to put that into perspective during the baby booming years there were a high of 123 births for women. it was according to a 14% drop in the birthrate among foreign-born women which is quote more than it had decline offered the entire 1990-2007 period. i among mexican women it dropped a whopping 23%. the thing for the birthrate is it is bad for the economy. it leads to too many old people and not enough young people. luckily there is a way to solve the problem. and it is not just a higher birthrate. it is an immigration. it can be a difficult fix if no one want
to grover norquist. that's why they're willing to shut down the government. they're not taking an oath to the constitution of the united states but an oath to grover norquist. if you do things like that you shouldn't have the right to try to continue to shut down the government and use the debt ceiling as a weapon. >> finally, congressman, there are reports the president may ask congress for $50 billion for hurricane sandy, you know, to cover costs of relief and rebuilding. do you expect that to even be held hostage as well by region sn -- republicans? >> yes, do i. >> so no agreement on fiscal cliff, no agreement on debt ceiling, no agreement on this either? >> that's because they are obstructionists. they've turned the win into a partisan political instrument. they've turned the weather into a partisan political instrument. we have a solution to thisç 37e have introduced a discharge petition. we think that we shouldn't be holding the middle class hostage. everyone agrees the first $250,000 in income should receive a tax increase. i believe it should be higher in some areas like lon
about that let's show what grover norquist had to say. he's the anti-tax pledge crusader. this is what he had to say yesterday. >> tea party two will dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> that's like say anaconda two will dwarf anaconda one. the sequel will be more intense. a poll find out last week that they found a majority of americans will blame the republicans in congress not the president for failure to make the deal. as we hear what grover says you see at any time other way. you say it will be the democrats. >> it could be. depending on what happens. if they keep posturing we can go off the fiscal cliff it won't be such a big deal i don't think that's where most democrats will end up. you they are president and a lot of people down in washington saying they don't want to go off the fiscal cliff. as far as grover norquist notices, i don't think republicans should be caving to a special interest of one, frankly. we do see some brave republicans coming out there and they should be supported because they are about finding a solution. >> i want to show this tomb th
miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice. >>> grover norquist thinks that the tea party will revolt until republicans keep tax rates low on the rich. we'll see if he's right about that. that's next. and later in the show, you're going to meet the last word viewer who impressed me so much with his online comment about the show that he works here now. that's coming up. ♪ ♪ mom? dad? guys? [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ] ♪ he'll be fine. [ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes and lexus for audi than ever before. take advantage of exceptional values during the season of audi event. >>> under my plan, first of all, 98% of folks who make less than 250,000, you won't see your income taxes go up a single dime. all right? because you're the ones who need relief. but we're not going to be able to get it done unless we also ask the wealthiest households to pay higher taxes on their income over $250,000. the same rate we had when bill clinton was president and our economy created nearly 23 million new jobs. >> that's from a new
grover norquist and his anti-tax pledge. this time it's new york congressman chris gibson who said that because of redistricting, he figures the pledge only applies to the area he was serving before. >>> and this was the photo op of the day. of course, vice president joe biden, he was shopping at the new costco in washington, d.c. he munched on some cookie samples, bought children's books, a tv set and apple pie. >>> remember this guy? the one who vowed to keep his romney/ryan campaign tattoo dispute the election results? reality has apparently caught up with him, and it's coming off soon. and that's your dish of "scrambled politics." >>> another day of fiscal cliff drama. stocks reversed early gains and fell shortly after house speaker john boehner dashed hopes that lawmakers were getting closer to agreeing on a year-end budget deal. but all three major markets did bounce back by the afternoon. >>> economic data was positive thursday, but we'll see what impact there is today from grim news out of europe. eurozone unemployment has hit another record high at 11.7% in october. >>> th
to sit down and negotiate the prestige of the country will pay a price. lou: i told grover norquist, he must like tom cole lot because all he would say in response was interesting tactic. thanks for being with us. in the "moneyline" toight, a stalemate in washington d.c. wall street's back today. the balance squeaking out of four. gain. s&p up less than a point, nasdaq slipping lower on the day. volume on the big board slightly heavier than usual. all the major indexes finished higher for the month. down 71 points. s&p and nasdaq both ended higher. the three biggest winners for the month, cisco systems up to nine 1/4%. home depot, bank of america, both of just above 6%. aaa now urging the environmental protection agency to halt the sales of gas with directional concentrations arguing the fuel blend known as e 15 with an additional 5% ethanol cause engine damage but that is not covered by most car warranties. the epa says cars made after the 2000's one mall can handle that fuel brand. triple late shows 95 percent of cars made before 2012 will not. up next, president obama meeting with ev
technically that goes against grover norquist's pledge. >> well, we've already put a plan out in the budget committee. as you said, i am a part of that budget committee. and we put out the fundamentals of that, where we would have a plan where we would have pro-growth tax reform, and that means something fairer, flatter and simpler, and a portion of that is to look at the deductions that right now really do benefit those in the upper income, and that we're willing to look at those, and to make sure that what we do does bring in more revenue by robust economy. >> and it wouldn't be a violation of a sort of a marriage vow to grover norquist. he has said that violating his pledge is somehow akin to, you know, violating your marriage vows. you don't -- your deal is with your constituents, not with grover norquist? >> that's right. that's exactly right. >> i want to talk a little bit about the debt ceiling because this is coming into play here. grover norquist, again, has written an op-ed mentioning the debt ceiling specifically. a new report for the bipartisan policy center said the ceiling mus
to get their own troops in line to make a deal, if they are going to pledge more allegiance to grover norquist than to
is for republicans to step out and get mercilessly criticized by grover norquist and democrats are going to have to do things about entitlements that they'll get criticized on the left. >> cenk: they're going to seem so big and grand taking criticism for the left. those people all just voted for you, right? they are putting medicare and medicaid on the chopping block. they've been dying to do it all along. they ran a campaign about romney would cult medicare. they're going to cult medicare. romney would have, maybe more, but they're going to cut it. it gets worse. how about tax cuts. sit down please. before you watch this clip, sit down, otherwise you're going to fall down. >> the immediate question of the tax cuts, we want to extend them for most people but we want to engage in the process of tax reform that would produce lower rates, even potentially for the wealthiest. >> cenk: you didn't hear that wrong. not higher rates for the wealthiest lower rates for the wealthiest! lower rates! cut taxes for the wealthiest! i'm glad we had an election, guys. the whole point of the election was to raise
mentioned grover norquist. he's making a new prediction, by the way. let's listen. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four bad years of regulation taxes. he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party 2 is going to dwarf tea party 1 if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> so basically, jon, what grover norquist is saying there to members of the tea party set who have been elected, who were elected, is, you know, we're going to take everybody who is against us into a primary on your right. >> right. >> on the republican side. >> right. >> so the threat has been issued already, even before we begin negotiating what the package will be. >> oh, yeah. >> this is like political terrorism. >> well, it's certainly a clear bargaining position. i remember three years ago talking to a longtime membe
the election in 1992, and which we're still living, because that gave us grover norquist, et cetera. >> let's get to grover norquist in a minute, but i do have a question. the gop plan consists of $2.2 trillion in savings over a decade. that includes raging the eligibility age for medicare from 65 to 67. and lowering cost of living increases for social security benefits. they also propose overhauling the tax code to generate $800 billion in new revenue. but without raising taxes on the wealthy. in a letter to the president, leading republicans compared their plan to one erskine bowles drew up last year. >> not even close. >> he rejected that connection and the white house, of course, is hitting the road. we'll get to that in a moment. but here's my question. i've been watching the coverage of this and reading it. and there's a lot of liberals who were like, he won, ha, ha, they're so arrogant about it, it's hard to like them. because it's just not attractive. but he did -- >> yeah, he won. >> and he is going to the american people with this. and why can't the starting point of these negotia
the no taxes pledge created by the president of americans for tax reform, grover norqui norquist, the two most terrifying words a republican can hear, other than buenos diaz. but now some republicans are abandoning the anti-tax pledge as fast as they abandoned -- what's his name? don't help me. don't help me. rip flambe -- no, that's my personal trainer. >> all right. good morning. it's wednesday, november 28th. look at this live look at rockefeller plaza. it is just lit up. gorgeous. >> you know what happens tonight? >> oh, yes, the big tree lighting. >> big commerce -- >> exciting for all the children. >> all right. welcome to "morning joe." >> mike, do you think that's going to whip people into a buying frenzy -- >> it's comcastic. >> a five-year running joke. >> i guess he wasn't paying attention. >> yes. >> national affairs editor for "new york" magazine. john heilemann and andrea mitchell. >> a lot of people say, i'm in trouble. and they've got these little arm bands now, wwjd. what would joe do? so what do i say? you've seen those, wwjd. >> everywhere. >> i say make a mistake, just step
grover norquist and hearing the uprising and all the fury over that that obama was going to have to give them some sort of fig leaf, some sort of concession, say well, yes, we had broken a promise, it was a really difficult decision for a lot of us, but we got "x." you know, the geithner offer of yesterday didn't have any "x." and what's fascinating about this, obama seems totally, totally convinced that if we go over the fiscal cliff, this benefits him. the public will blame the republicans. okay. i suppose it's entirely possible. in fact, it's probable of that category. but does obama really want to start the second term going into recession again? the interesting thing, with this offer on the table, sequestration and the expiration of bush tax cuts for everyone is the best option for republicans right now. but as least under that, you can dispel this notion -- the biggest obstacle is this attitude of the public that we can solve the problem of the debt, we can solve the problem of entitlements just by raising taxes on the rich a little bit. it's fundamentally not true. but my attitude
already sort of bucked the grover norquist pledge a little bit. saxby chambliss, marco rubio, lindsey graham. patty murray. a leader of the party's left wing. she's saying, basically, look, the cliff to me for politics and substance is not the worst deal in the world. it's a terrible deal if we can't get those tax hikes. again, if we can't win this fight now and change that discussion, let's go over the cliff. i'm kind of watching her to see what she says. because it kind of tells you how the president and his team are communicating with the democrats and what the negotiating room is going to be on entitlements. >> nick, thanks so much for that insight. >> thank you guys. >>> next, mitt at the white house? don't be alarmed. he's just having lunch with the president. too bad the president already ate his lunch. >> oh! >> how we think that conversation went as "the cycle" rolls on for thursday, november 29th. we're at walmart with the simmons family. how much is your current phone bill? four sixteen seventy six a month! okay, come with me -- we're gonna save you money. with straight tal
by grover norquist, but all the polls say two-thirds of americans are quite happy for the wealthier to pay more taxes in america. i think they should just get on with it and suck it up. >> well, it was a relatively close election but the president did win and he has to own this. we also know that the "washington post" said this, and if you just close the loopholes and deductions on the folks instead of just raising their tax rates outright, you can come up with close to that $800 billion that they did agree on last year. you get to about 750. to come in with a $1.6 trillion as your starting point, i can't believe it's serious. i don't blame the leadership, mcconnell apparently burst -- senator mcconnell burst out laughing. i don't blame him because it's absolutely ridiculous to come back from last year with twice the amount. it's not a serious offer and i think it's in bad form for the president to go out on this campaign stop. he needs to sit down and work with republicans. we understand that the president won and the house is still in republican hands. both sides need to understand that.
no taxes pledge and grover norquist has republicans on record i won't vote for a tax increase. are they really ending up here negotiating with themselves in a way that hurts their positions, vis-a-vis the president? >> certainly, they are, i think that the president is energized by the fact he thinks, look, i ran a lousy economy for four years, i left unemployment high, i increased the size of the debt and the deficit, i got everything i wanted, the place is a mess and look, i got reelected. so, what's so hard about me continuing to doing that and blaming it on them. obviously, i'm very good at that and that's base clr where he's going here and the republicans i think are not very good poker players, they're signaled they're relucks tennant to go over the cliff. if you're in this showdown, i is a, come on, bring it. >> paul: they will get blamed if that happens and the president is signaling that. that wouldn't be a pleasant outcome for them. you're saying they should suggest to the president we had he' be willing to do that and maybe he'll give at the end? >> yeah, i think th
. >> krystal, it's grover norquist versus the polls, actually, the polls actually tell us -- a new cnn poll shows that 45% of americans would blame congressional republicans if no deal is reached and 34% would blame president obama. i don't think grover is going to turn that around. >> no, i don't think grover is going to turn that around and i don't think that he's right that tea party 2 will dwarf tea party 1. >> he is so wrong. >> but i do think that there is true to the fact that there is already a backlash from the ultra right, grassroot tea partyiers that are still out there upset with boehner over his initial position, which is still quite far to the right, as you and ryan talked about in the last segment, doesn't even include any increase in the top tack rates at all. it still focuses on these magic, you know, reductions of loopholes and deductions that we've never heard anyone from mitt romney or anyone else be able to actually describe. >> let's listen to something that tim geithner said, his description of the republican's problem. >> they are in kind of in a tough position now a
get things done in washington, rather than saying hey, would you stick with grover norquist or would you not or would you address entitlements or not. i believe it's vital that we address the entitlements, who are the elephant in the room, but that would be up to the people who would be sitting across the table from each other. we cannot go over this fiscal cliff, no matter what people on both ends of the political spectrum say. i believe that there was a popularity poll in case you missed it where now members of congress rank just above car salespeople and i'm a great admirer of car salespeople, you know. it's not even astonishing and it angers me beyond belief, even journalists rank higher than members of congress. >> former senate majority leader george mitchell knows what it's like to be in the middle of the debate. he joins me now. senator mitchell, you more or less have been in john boehner's shoes. you were a congressional leader hammering out a tax and spending cut deal with the president of the opposing party. how is what we're seeing now different than what you experienced
for example, he teaches at columbia university and recently went off on grover norquist who wants republic office holders to sign an oath they will not raise taxes. >> the people taking the oath, the oath that he oath purpose of destroying the u.s. government. it's a kind of anarchist proposition it's a pretense that the government is completely useless and should be destroyed. therefore it is kind of a is a dishes oath, treasonous oath. people who take that oath cannot actually serve in the government with good conscience because their real role is to act as a mole and to destroy the government. >> bill: i guess is he a mind reader in addition to being a professor. here now fox business anchor john stossel. all right, now, thurman, that professor teaches at columbia private college. went to princeton private college and they can do whatever they want. that's not the discussion here. once you get into the state university systems in all five states have them then i'm paying and you are paying for these guys to run wild. shouldn't there be some kind of imposed balance? >> affirmative action
of strength. the republicans would be free from their pledge to grover norquist about not raising taxes. and we would be talking about who is going to get some tax relief -- middle-class families, you know, people with children, and other targeted cuts, and the republicans could say, gee, i wanted to give the rich a tax break but we just couldn't get there. but, hey, we helped ow 98% of the people in america. i think we'd be barg frng strength. i'm very worried that we're getting back to where we were two years ago where the president was put in a box or a year ago when the president got put in a box over the republicans threatening to defall on our debt. we need to bargain from a stronger position and going over this bump in the road would give us that. >> as you know, there are a lot of people who would disagree with you about that, not just about the financial numbers per se, say the $200 billion the president is talking act next year, but also from a psychological standpoint. we've already seen wall street reacting in a negative way, concerned exactly about what would happen if a de
does grover norquist pledge play into all of this, right? if you look at tom saying i don't see it as a pledge. >> however they want to modify that definition of having taken the pledge is fine by me. >> at the end of the day if you're the top 2% you're paying more and will feel like the taxes were raised. is that enough of an out, do you think? >> whatever they want -- however they want to gloss it over is fine by me. taking the pledge. i never took it even though i cut taxes and kept the budget spending low and all those good things and grover's group would never endorse me because i wouldn't take the pledge. it makes no sense to tie your hands before you know what you may actually be facing and what you're going to have to deal. and now what's happening -- i think it's a good sign as far as the ability to come to some kind of a compromise on the issue of the fiscal cliff. you have thoughtful leaders saying look, we cannot tie our hands this way. i don't care whether they want to say tess a revenue enhancer, it's closing a loophole and that's not really raising a tax. whatever
the pledge, and offending the grand inquisitor grover norquist, it's the one way they can let this happen. >> and, in fact, you know, what could happen, you can imagine a scenario where you go off the cliff on taxes, rates go up for everybody, you then vote to restore the rates for the vast majority of taxpayers, 98%, and further it is even conceivable you negotiate down the top rates in the level under bill clinton a little bit by putting in the pot offsetting deductions for credits which would allow republicans to claim some sort of victory as well. that could be a scenario where you have a consensus on the tax run. >> let's run all of this by representative xavier becerra of california. he's joining us now. nice to see you, sir 367 appreciate your time. what is really the white house dismiss kind of out of hand i mean i don't have the exact number of minutes that they had this republican proposal but it was not very many and they dismissed it out of, of hand after i thought geithner spent the entire weekend calling on the republicans to come forward with a plan. >> well, soledad, the p
are waffling. we're standing strong on that point. >> do you think that's a pledge with grover norquist, with your constituents? there are others saying they have room around the pledge. >> well, that's a great question you just asked me. is that a pledge to my constituents. absolutely. in 2002 -- and i was running in a tough primary and those folks back in marietta, georgia, said, phil, are you going to take the grover norquist, americans for tax reform pledge. i said, yes, i will take it. many would have voted for my opponent. that plenl, i honor that. it's a pledge to my constituents. absolutely. >> all right. you say your constituents don't want you to raise taxes on the rich. let me show you what an abc/washington post poll shows. 60% would support raising taxes on incomes over $250,000 per year. you wouldn't do that? >> i understand that their perception. i have constituents that take that position as well. i'm sent to congress to represent 700,000 people in my northwest georgia district. they send me because they trust my judgment. they think i have the facts that maybe in many c
people pull away from grover norquist and hold onto the mantle of reagan and he raised taxes. corker saying i'm not beholden to grover nor quest and i'm beholden to my constituency. i see some movement. the cutting of programs is going to be a different story. >> i don't think anybody wants to cut programs. republicans don't because they're now in what they consider the rebuilding mode, but the challenge is going to be that there are democrats -- if you take a look at some of these tax issues, estate taxes, the president is not going to have unified support from the house on that issue because he's going to lose most likely the congressional black caucus, he'll lose representatives of farming states because it's going to decimate -- >> it is not going to decimate. that is an absolutely dick cue louse overstatement. >> let's look at it this way. look at it from african-american's perspective. hundreds of years of oppression. finally there's an opportunity to go and compete in a balanced way in this economy today but there's a head start. and so -- of generational transferring of wealt
are attacking grover more gift. grover -- grover norquist. one side is going to win because it's united, highly aggressive and reckless. >> they said they would reform entitlements later -- >> come on ... martha: later? how many things have we said we are going to do later? it's so ridiculous it makes you want to jump over the fiscal cliff. in terms of raising the debt limit again. let me put this out there. the reason for that is they don't want to go through this exercise of talking about spending cuts. >> the other part of what i was going to say many democrats want to reform entitlements as long as it doesn't hurt beneficiaries. if you are going to talk to me about tax raising. we are talking about the bush clauses, the bush taxes which are supposed to end after 9 years because they knew there would be huge deficits after that. >> this is not even serious. everybody agrees taxes are going up. taxes are going up on rich people period. the real question is how are you going to pull back on spending? we have a debt larger than our economy because of spending, specifically medicare spending. th
-by-day house members are saying they will blow off the grover norquist pledge. why do we have to be held to a pledge some would say? >> some. why give up something if a negotiation until you get something back? they are not getting anything back. >>gregg: the concession was a mistake? >> obviously. >> what we are missing from the republicans, that would be a positive message of what they are for. if as they did with paul ryan, they say we want to take medicare, social security, medicaid, and they do the same thing now with mcconnell and they need a game changer. >> as i said, on the debt crisis --. >> no, it is about spending cuts and the president is proposing not cuts but more spending. >> here is the point. if the republicans said, wait, we are going to start right here on this constitutional question, make the democrats in the senate and house of representatives vote, do you think mary landrieu would vote to give him total power? the republicans do not have a clue how to handle this. >> that would be smart, to call a vote right now on the president's ability to take away from congres
. that would go against the grover norquist pledge not to raise taxes. but one of those who signed the pledge is standing by his promise. senator ron john so thson joins. senator, thanks for being here. >> good morning. >> senator, we've been following all of these negotiations as the market has turning on every single bit of information that comes out. you say that you would not go along with any idea to raise those marginal tax rates. why is that? >> because everything we should be doing here should be concentrating on economic growth because that's time as more effective. let me give you a couple numbers. even with the very meager recovery that we've had, revenue has increased to the federal government by $344 billion per year. if we just return to a normal economy like we had in 2007, those policies of george bush where we had 18.5% of our economy coming to the federal government as revenue, that would be another $419 billion. so combined, that would be $750 billion per year of additional revenue. now, president obama's proposal of punishing success, it's hard to say exactly what it will
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